00:05 Introduction and Approach

Proposal Approach

• The success of Evmos relies on the success of DeFi in the short term.
• The proposal is conservative and aims to address concerns about token value decline.
• Liquidity mining, despite personal opinions, is a reality that needs to be considered.
• Validation contributes significantly to sell pressure, while emissions are a minor factor.
• Attracting TVL (Total Value Locked) is crucial for sustaining token value.

01:21 Importance of TVL and Community Collaboration

Importance of TVL

• Lack of TVL can lead to a decline in Evmos token price.
• It is essential for users to earn more money on Evmos compared to other platforms.
• Without meaningful TVL, assets will not flow into Evmos.

Community Collaboration

• The community needs to work together as core contributors to make Evmos successful.
• Supporting various liquid staking assets is important, not just Stride assets.
• Listing liquid staked tokens requires sufficient liquidity and approval from Chaos Lab.

03:05 Incentivizing Assets and Criteria for Approval

Incentivizing Assets

• Liquid staking assets enable leverage and capital efficiency in lending protocols.
• Focusing solely on stATOM assets would limit access to major assets and affect swaps and liquidations.
• Quantitative analysis and financial modeling determine the thresholds for incentivizing assets.

Criteria for Approval

• Chaos Lab's approval criteria vary across ecosystems.
• For S Avex on Avalanche, $10 million in dex liquidity was required.
• Evmos currently lacks sufficient liquidity for collateralization on Tashi.

05:42 Focus on Liquid Staking Assets

Importance of Liquid Staking Assets

• JD is a fan of liquid staking assets like stEVMOS.
• To increase TVL and momentum in Evmos, focus should be placed on assets with deep liquidity and yield potential.

06:18

Impact of Bad Debt

• Bad debt in the Evmos ecosystem has a contagion effect, affecting the entire ecosystem.
• Working with Chaos Labs is crucial to gain a third-party perspective and expertise in understanding and modeling lending protocols. 06:18

06:39

Joining the Conversation

• The speaker works for Stride, focusing on growth and strategy.
• They aim to provide an objective perspective on stATOM Adam and stEVMOS as collateral assets for Tashi on Evmos. 06:39

07:02

Value of Collateral Assets

• Liquidity worth more than $10 million is available for stATOM Atom throughout Cosmos.
• Approximately $20-$25 million worth of liquidity exists on exchanges, meeting the liquidity threshold mentioned earlier. 07:02

07:46

Liquidity Availability

• The $20 million worth of liquidity mentioned earlier is available on exchanges, not specifically on Evmos or Osmosis.
• The speaker acknowledges Chaos's consideration of outpost, IBC, and other opportunities within the Cosmos ecosystem. 07:46

08:08

Caution with Liquid Staking Assets

• Liquid staking assets present a significant risk if there are issues such as DPEG, mismanagement, bad debt, or cascading liquidations.
• Despite the risks, the speaker agrees that liquid staking assets have numerous benefits for the ecosystem. 08:08

08:41

Risk Factors and Incentivization

• Liquid staking assets pose a risk vector that needs to be carefully managed within lending protocols.
• Lending protocols with low TVL may not have efficient incentivization strategies.
• The yield built into Umi, Shade, Kajira, and Mars eliminates the need for additional incentives for collateralizing stATOM Atom.08:41

09:00

Liquidity and Collateralization Examples

• Approximately $25 million worth of trading liquidity exists for stATOM Atom throughout Cosmos.
• Around $5-$7 million worth of stATOM Atom is currently used as collateral for loans.09:00

11:14

Comparison with Other Ecosystems

• In the Cosmos ecosystem, approximately 1.5% of the total staked amount is currently being liquid staked.
• The speaker mentions that liquid staking has been offered for a little over a year in Cosmos and provides an example of AVAX's liquid staking percentage.11:14

11:32

Growing Adoption of Liquid Staking

• Liquid staking adoption in Cosmos is increasing steadily.
• The speaker suggests that incentives may not be necessary for collateralizing stATOM Atom, given its usage as collateral without additional incentives throughout Cosmos. 11:32

12:44 Incentivizing Liquidity for Evmos

Importance of Incentivizing Liquidity

• Without proper incentives, it is unlikely that assets will be attracted to Evmos.
• The speaker acknowledges being an outsized risk compared to the rest of the TVL (Total Value Locked) in the ecosystem.
• While they dislike incentives, they recognize the need to incentivize liquidity in order to grow the ecosystem.

Community Support for Incentives

• The Evmos community is generally supportive of using incentives.
• However, there is a point of contention regarding whether liquid stake should be used as an incentive or not.
• The speaker points out that current incentives on Forge are not being used properly unless DeFi is completely wrong.

Collateralization Challenges

• Due to insufficient dex liquidity, it is currently difficult to collateralize any assets on Evmos.
• While incentivizing stATOM assets can be done, deeper liquidity is needed for all other assets in order to enable lending.

13:28 Collaborative Approach for Incentive Strategies

Need for Collaboration

• Instead of approaching incentive strategies from individual protocol perspectives, a collaborative approach involving multiple stakeholders is necessary.
• This includes Forge, Stride us, Evmos foundation, and other meaningful stakeholders.

Ecosystem-Wide Incentive Strategies

• The speaker suggests having a meaningful conversation about ecosystem-wide incentive strategies to avoid hindering the growth of the ecosystem.
• Feedback on Commonwealth indicates that there is significant interest in stATOM assets, likely from the Stride army.

14:52 Consideration for Stride Assets and Liquidity

Support for Stride Assets

• The speaker expresses interest in listing and supporting Stride assets.
• However, they highlight that Evmos currently lacks sufficient liquidity anywhere, including for St. Adam stEVMOS.

Importance of Liquidity

• Collateralization of assets is challenging due to insufficient dex liquidity.
• While incentivizing stATOM assets can be done, deeper liquidity is needed for all other assets to enable lending.

16:28 Liquidity Levels and Viability

Importance of Liquidity Levels

• Not a single lending protocol in Evmos is close to being profitable.
• Reaching multiple tens of millions in liquidity within the next year and a half is crucial.
• The viability of projects like Tashi depends on achieving these liquidity levels.

Significance of Cosmos Native Projects

• Despite low liquidity and volume, Forge has been successful compared to other DEXes on Evmos.
• The push for using Stride assets is based on the success of Forge's liquidity program.

17:50 Contentious Environment and Contribution to Evmos

Contentious Environment

• The speaker acknowledges the lack of a welcoming feeling from Evmos incumbents.
• They express frustration with unnecessary contention despite their intention to contribute to Evmos.

Contribution to Evmos

• Launching a protocol on Evmos is driven by a desire to contribute rather than financial gain.
• The speaker appreciates productive discussions and expresses gratitude for the community's interest.

18:34 Collaboration and Respectful Approach

Collaboration and Respect

• Collaboration, respect, and working together are crucial in fostering a positive environment.
• Discussions like these are productive when approached with respect and an open mind.

Appreciation for Sentiment

• The speaker acknowledges the community's care, interest, and willingness to work together.
• They appreciate the sentiment expressed by others in the conversation.

19:19

Understanding TVL and Pool Allocation

• 19:19 The speaker clarifies that when referring to TVL, they are specifically talking about stATOM ATOM pool on Osmosis.
• 19:45 They explain that the 20 million mentioned refers to $10 million worth of ATOM paired with $10 million worth of stATOM ATOM.
• 20:07 The speaker emphasizes the importance of considering wallet concentration and slippage for large movements in order to assess viability.
• 20:23 They mention that while there should be enough swap volume with a TVL of 20 million, further confirmation is needed from Chaos.

20:40

Support for stATOM Atom in Pith

• 20:40 The speaker explains that Pith does not currently support stATOM Atom in Cosmos.
• 21:00 They suggest working with another Oracle like Oho, which provides an Oracle feed from Osmosis to the Umi blockchain.
• 21:39 The speaker mentions load balancing with Oracles and highlights their extensive investigation into various Oracle providers.

22:03

Incorporating Oho for stATOM Assets

• 22:03 The speaker states that incorporating Oho to obtain stATOM Adam and stEVMOS feeds is doable.
• 22:30 They mention that as long as they can get the required feeds, it doesn't matter where they come from.
• 22:51 The speaker expresses their appreciation for constructive discussions and sees them as a sign of progress.

23:12

Sustainability of Borrowing ATOM

• 23:12 The speaker acknowledges the opportunity cost of not having ATOM staked when borrowing and discusses the trade-off involved.
• 24:10 They emphasize the ability to use recursive lending with liquid staked assets to create synthetic leverage, increasing overall yield with minimal additional risk.

24:29

Boosting Ecosystem Growth

• 24:29 The speaker acknowledges that there is no perfect solution but emphasizes the need for meaningful liquidity of unstaked ATOM to increase overall macro TVL and volumes in the ecosystem.

25:25

The Efficiency and Benefits of Liquid Staked Assets

• Liquid staked assets are considered to be significantly more efficient and beneficial for end users.
• The speaker fully supports the theory that liquid staked assets, such as stATOM, ATOM, and stEVMOS, are superior options.
• There is a desire to support and incentivize these liquid staking products.

Balancing Incentives

• While there is a preference for certain liquid staking products, there is also a need to balance incentives across all options.
• It is acknowledged that emissions on these products should be reduced in the future.
• Collaboration is encouraged to find a meaningful middle ground between emission reduction and maintaining momentum against competitors like Kava.

Short-Term Economic Argument

• It is recognized that it may not be possible to make a positive economic argument for incentivizing ATOM in the short term.
• The focus is on how incentivizing ATOM can have an impact on bootstrapping liquidity and generating momentum.
• The goal is not just immediate benefits but also avoiding losing momentum to competitors.

Marketing Spend or Ad Spend?

• Incentivizing the collateralization of unstaked ATOM can be seen as a form of marketing or advertising expenditure.
• This approach may be acceptable if it helps spark liquidity and maintain competitiveness.