00:05 Introduction and Approach
JD from Rome Blockchain and Tashi express gratitude for the opportunity to discuss the proposal. They emphasize the importance of collaboration and coordination among different primitives to ensure the success of Evmos.
- The success of Evmos relies on the success of DeFi in the short term.
- The proposal is conservative and aims to address concerns about token value decline.
- Liquidity mining, despite personal opinions, is a reality that needs to be considered.
- Validation contributes significantly to sell pressure, while emissions are a minor factor.
- Attracting TVL (Total Value Locked) is crucial for sustaining token value.
01:21 Importance of TVL and Community Collaboration
JD emphasizes the significance of attracting TVL and highlights the need for community collaboration to achieve this goal.
Importance of TVL
- Lack of TVL can lead to a decline in Evmos token price.
- It is essential for users to earn more money on Evmos compared to other platforms.
- Without meaningful TVL, assets will not flow into Evmos.
- The community needs to work together as core contributors to make Evmos successful.
- Supporting various liquid staking assets is important, not just Stride assets.
- Listing liquid staked tokens requires sufficient liquidity and approval from Chaos Lab.
03:05 Incentivizing Assets and Criteria for Approval
JD explains why incentivizing only specific assets may not be feasible due to capital efficiency considerations. He also discusses Chaos Lab's criteria for approving liquid staking products.
- Liquid staking assets enable leverage and capital efficiency in lending protocols.
- Focusing solely on stATOM assets would limit access to major assets and affect swaps and liquidations.
- Quantitative analysis and financial modeling determine the thresholds for incentivizing assets.
Criteria for Approval
- Chaos Lab's approval criteria vary across ecosystems.
- For S Avex on Avalanche, $10 million in dex liquidity was required.
- Evmos currently lacks sufficient liquidity for collateralization on Tashi.
05:42 Focus on Liquid Staking Assets
JD expresses his support for liquid staking assets but emphasizes the need to focus on assets that can attract TVL in the short term.
Importance of Liquid Staking Assets
- JD is a fan of liquid staking assets like stEVMOS.
- To increase TVL and momentum in Evmos, focus should be placed on assets with deep liquidity and yield potential.
Note: The transcript provided does not include any timestamps beyond 0:05:42.
The speaker discusses the impact of bad debt on the Evmos ecosystem and emphasizes the importance of working with Chaos Labs to understand and model lending protocols.
Impact of Bad Debt
- Bad debt in the Evmos ecosystem has a contagion effect, affecting the entire ecosystem.
- Working with Chaos Labs is crucial to gain a third-party perspective and expertise in understanding and modeling lending protocols. 06:18
The speaker invites others to join the conversation and provides some context about their role at Stride. They express their objective viewpoint regarding stATOM Adam and stEVMOS as collateral assets for Tashi on Evmos.
Joining the Conversation
- The speaker works for Stride, focusing on growth and strategy.
- They aim to provide an objective perspective on stATOM Adam and stEVMOS as collateral assets for Tashi on Evmos. 06:39
The speaker highlights that stATOM Atom and stEVMOS are valuable collateral assets for Tashi on Evmos, considering the liquidity available throughout the Cosmos ecosystem.
Value of Collateral Assets
- Liquidity worth more than $10 million is available for stATOM Atom throughout Cosmos.
- Approximately $20-$25 million worth of liquidity exists on exchanges, meeting the liquidity threshold mentioned earlier. 07:02
The speaker clarifies that the mentioned liquidity is available on exchanges rather than directly on Evmos or Osmosis. They also mention Chaos's consideration of outpost, IBC, and other opportunities within Cosmos.
- The $20 million worth of liquidity mentioned earlier is available on exchanges, not specifically on Evmos or Osmosis.
- The speaker acknowledges Chaos's consideration of outpost, IBC, and other opportunities within the Cosmos ecosystem. 07:46
The speaker expresses their support for listing stATOM assets as soon as possible but highlights the need for caution due to the risks associated with liquid staking assets.
Caution with Liquid Staking Assets
- Liquid staking assets present a significant risk if there are issues such as DPEG, mismanagement, bad debt, or cascading liquidations.
- Despite the risks, the speaker agrees that liquid staking assets have numerous benefits for the ecosystem. 08:08
The speaker emphasizes the importance of being careful when integrating liquid staking assets into lending protocols due to their potential risk factors. They also discuss incentivization strategies and TVL (Total Value Locked) in lending protocols.
Risk Factors and Incentivization
- Liquid staking assets pose a risk vector that needs to be carefully managed within lending protocols.
- Lending protocols with low TVL may not have efficient incentivization strategies.
- The yield built into Umi, Shade, Kajira, and Mars eliminates the need for additional incentives for collateralizing stATOM Atom.08:41
The speaker provides examples of liquidity and collateralization throughout various chains in the Cosmos ecosystem.
Liquidity and Collateralization Examples
- Approximately $25 million worth of trading liquidity exists for stATOM Atom throughout Cosmos.
- Around $5-$7 million worth of stATOM Atom is currently used as collateral for loans.09:00
The speaker compares the percentage of liquid staked ATOM in the Cosmos ecosystem to other ecosystems, highlighting that liquid staking is still relatively new.
Comparison with Other Ecosystems
- In the Cosmos ecosystem, approximately 1.5% of the total staked amount is currently being liquid staked.
- The speaker mentions that liquid staking has been offered for a little over a year in Cosmos and provides an example of AVAX's liquid staking percentage.11:14
The speaker discusses the growing adoption of liquid staking in the Cosmos ecosystem and questions why only a small fraction of ATOM holders have chosen to liquid stake.
Growing Adoption of Liquid Staking
- Liquid staking adoption in Cosmos is increasing steadily.
- The speaker suggests that incentives may not be necessary for collateralizing stATOM Atom, given its usage as collateral without additional incentives throughout Cosmos. 11:32
12:44 Incentivizing Liquidity for Evmos
The speaker emphasizes the importance of incentivizing liquidity for Evmos in order to attract assets and compete with other protocols. They acknowledge the need for incentives, despite their dislike for them, in order to seed an ecosystem beyond 2 million monthly volume on Forge.
Importance of Incentivizing Liquidity
- Without proper incentives, it is unlikely that assets will be attracted to Evmos.
- The speaker acknowledges being an outsized risk compared to the rest of the TVL (Total Value Locked) in the ecosystem.
- While they dislike incentives, they recognize the need to incentivize liquidity in order to grow the ecosystem.
Community Support for Incentives
- The Evmos community is generally supportive of using incentives.
- However, there is a point of contention regarding whether liquid stake should be used as an incentive or not.
- The speaker points out that current incentives on Forge are not being used properly unless DeFi is completely wrong.
- Due to insufficient dex liquidity, it is currently difficult to collateralize any assets on Evmos.
- While incentivizing stATOM assets can be done, deeper liquidity is needed for all other assets in order to enable lending.
13:28 Collaborative Approach for Incentive Strategies
The speaker suggests taking a macro look at incentive strategies as a group involving Forge, Stride us, Evmos foundation, and other stakeholders. They emphasize the need for meaningful conversations about ecosystem-wide incentive strategies rather than individual protocol perspectives.
Need for Collaboration
- Instead of approaching incentive strategies from individual protocol perspectives, a collaborative approach involving multiple stakeholders is necessary.
- This includes Forge, Stride us, Evmos foundation, and other meaningful stakeholders.
Ecosystem-Wide Incentive Strategies
- The speaker suggests having a meaningful conversation about ecosystem-wide incentive strategies to avoid hindering the growth of the ecosystem.
- Feedback on Commonwealth indicates that there is significant interest in stATOM assets, likely from the Stride army.
14:52 Consideration for Stride Assets and Liquidity
The speaker acknowledges the desire to list and support Stride assets but highlights the need for sufficient liquidity. They express willingness to incentivize Stride assets but stress the importance of considering liquidity across all Cosmos lending platforms.
Support for Stride Assets
- The speaker expresses interest in listing and supporting Stride assets.
- However, they highlight that Evmos currently lacks sufficient liquidity anywhere, including for St. Adam stEVMOS.
Importance of Liquidity
- Collateralization of assets is challenging due to insufficient dex liquidity.
- While incentivizing stATOM assets can be done, deeper liquidity is needed for all other assets to enable lending.
16:28 Liquidity Levels and Viability
The speaker discusses the importance of reaching high liquidity levels within a reasonable timeframe. They emphasize that without adequate liquidity, even Tashi may become a community project with no funds to sustain it. They also mention the significance of Cosmos native projects like Forge in terms of liquidity programs on Evmos.
Importance of Liquidity Levels
- Not a single lending protocol in Evmos is close to being profitable.
- Reaching multiple tens of millions in liquidity within the next year and a half is crucial.
- The viability of projects like Tashi depends on achieving these liquidity levels.
Significance of Cosmos Native Projects
- Despite low liquidity and volume, Forge has been successful compared to other DEXes on Evmos.
- The push for using Stride assets is based on the success of Forge's liquidity program.
17:50 Contentious Environment and Contribution to Evmos
The speaker addresses the contentious environment and emphasizes their contribution to Evmos. They express a desire for collaboration and highlight that launching a protocol on Evmos is not driven by financial gain.
- The speaker acknowledges the lack of a welcoming feeling from Evmos incumbents.
- They express frustration with unnecessary contention despite their intention to contribute to Evmos.
Contribution to Evmos
- Launching a protocol on Evmos is driven by a desire to contribute rather than financial gain.
- The speaker appreciates productive discussions and expresses gratitude for the community's interest.
18:34 Collaboration and Respectful Approach
The speaker emphasizes the importance of collaboration, respect, and working together. They acknowledge that discussions like these are productive and express appreciation for the sentiment shared by others in the conversation.
Collaboration and Respect
- Collaboration, respect, and working together are crucial in fostering a positive environment.
- Discussions like these are productive when approached with respect and an open mind.
Appreciation for Sentiment
- The speaker acknowledges the community's care, interest, and willingness to work together.
- They appreciate the sentiment expressed by others in the conversation.
In this section, the speaker discusses the concept of TVL (Total Value Locked) and its relation to stATOM ATOM pool on Osmosis. They clarify the allocation of funds in the pool and mention the importance of wallet concentration, slippage, and swap volumes.
Understanding TVL and Pool Allocation
- 19:19 The speaker clarifies that when referring to TVL, they are specifically talking about stATOM ATOM pool on Osmosis.
- 19:45 They explain that the 20 million mentioned refers to $10 million worth of ATOM paired with $10 million worth of stATOM ATOM.
- 20:07 The speaker emphasizes the importance of considering wallet concentration and slippage for large movements in order to assess viability.
- 20:23 They mention that while there should be enough swap volume with a TVL of 20 million, further confirmation is needed from Chaos.
In this section, the speaker discusses Pith's lack of support for stATOM Atom in Cosmos and suggests using other Oracles like Oho for a good Oracle feed.
Support for stATOM Atom in Pith
- 20:40 The speaker explains that Pith does not currently support stATOM Atom in Cosmos.
- 21:00 They suggest working with another Oracle like Oho, which provides an Oracle feed from Osmosis to the Umi blockchain.
- 21:39 The speaker mentions load balancing with Oracles and highlights their extensive investigation into various Oracle providers.
In this section, the speaker discusses incorporating Oho to obtain stATOM assets quickly and the flexibility of using different Oracles.
Incorporating Oho for stATOM Assets
- 22:03 The speaker states that incorporating Oho to obtain stATOM Adam and stEVMOS feeds is doable.
- 22:30 They mention that as long as they can get the required feeds, it doesn't matter where they come from.
- 22:51 The speaker expresses their appreciation for constructive discussions and sees them as a sign of progress.
In this section, the speaker addresses sustainability concerns regarding borrowing ATOM without incentives and highlights the advantages of liquid staked assets.
Sustainability of Borrowing ATOM
- 23:12 The speaker acknowledges the opportunity cost of not having ATOM staked when borrowing and discusses the trade-off involved.
- 24:10 They emphasize the ability to use recursive lending with liquid staked assets to create synthetic leverage, increasing overall yield with minimal additional risk.
In this section, the speaker concludes by highlighting the importance of giving optionality for macro TVL and volumes in order to boost ecosystem growth.
Boosting Ecosystem Growth
- 24:29 The speaker acknowledges that there is no perfect solution but emphasizes the need for meaningful liquidity of unstaked ATOM to increase overall macro TVL and volumes in the ecosystem.
In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of considering the long-term implications of liquid staked assets and the need to incentivize various products related to liquid staking.
The Efficiency and Benefits of Liquid Staked Assets
- Liquid staked assets are considered to be significantly more efficient and beneficial for end users.
- The speaker fully supports the theory that liquid staked assets, such as stATOM, ATOM, and stEVMOS, are superior options.
- There is a desire to support and incentivize these liquid staking products.
- While there is a preference for certain liquid staking products, there is also a need to balance incentives across all options.
- It is acknowledged that emissions on these products should be reduced in the future.
- Collaboration is encouraged to find a meaningful middle ground between emission reduction and maintaining momentum against competitors like Kava.
Short-Term Economic Argument
- It is recognized that it may not be possible to make a positive economic argument for incentivizing ATOM in the short term.
- The focus is on how incentivizing ATOM can have an impact on bootstrapping liquidity and generating momentum.
- The goal is not just immediate benefits but also avoiding losing momentum to competitors.
Marketing Spend or Ad Spend?
- Incentivizing the collateralization of unstaked ATOM can be seen as a form of marketing or advertising expenditure.
- This approach may be acceptable if it helps spark liquidity and maintain competitiveness.
Note: Timestamps provided are approximate.